Forum:2019-09-11 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Working on your Doctorate in Mad Science? Consider making Girl Genius your dissertation topic. ---- Good: Lucrezia (Lunevka?) has found Albia to be highly problematic. Bad: That's dependent on Thorpe keeping up the chaneling. Intriguing: What is Albia talking about? Is it related to her "garden"? --MadCat221 (talk) 05:58, September 11, 2019 (UTC) Man, you beat me! That's what I get for saying everything at once. ➤ Okay, starting at the end, "what you have done." Turning the ninjas into revenants? (A guess based on the yellow ovals over their heads.) Or something deeper about the old queens or the mirrors or something? ➤ : I suppose what Albia is talking about has not happened yet in this Lucrezia’s subjective timeline. :Or no, may be you’re right, it’s the ninjas. Svesjo (talk) 17:22, September 11, 2019 (UTC) "I'm not ready to..." Presumably "to carry out my plan to attack you and take control of England," right? ➤ And finally, Albia calls her/it "Lucrezia." And she/it doesn't deny it, although the left hand is now clearly mechanical. The glowy blue eyes weren't so obvious Monday, although looking back now they're clearly there. And the lance is a lance, just held close to the business end. Bkharvey (talk) 06:03, September 11, 2019 (UTC) P.S. Monday, Quantheory asked if Albia had prepared during the past millenia; now we know. Bkharvey (talk) 06:08, September 11, 2019 (UTC) Apropos of nothing: "Ah, now" in the third panel sounds like Gil! Bkharvey (talk) 06:12, September 11, 2019 (UTC) : I doubt the ninja are revenants, (wouldn't be surprised if they aren't actually human) but Lucrezia somehow suborned them, and, yes, Albia is taking back control. :: So why not revenants? That's her best subornation tool. Bkharvey (talk) 07:00, September 11, 2019 (UTC) :::I'll rephrase. I hope those aren't revenants, because if Albia can that casually undo slaver-wasp control, and didn't bother to tell anyone, then.. yeesh. --Geoduck42 (talk) 19:52, September 11, 2019 (UTC) :::: Ah, got it. Yes. Bkharvey (talk) 01:35, September 12, 2019 (UTC) : Not ready to confront Albia personally, I'd guess--Geoduck42 (talk) 06:18, September 11, 2019 (UTC) :: She has to mean more than that. The "just die" means that she is confident about confronting Albia (wrongly, luckily). She's not ready for some particular aspect of her anti-Albia plan that requires preparation. ➤ :: By the way, shouldn't Albia be zooming over here in the flesh, since she knows the link with Trelawney is likely to die soon? Bkharvey (talk) 06:24, September 11, 2019 (UTC) ::: She might need to break the link before she moves over and would rather delay that. Argadi (talk) 11:28, September 11, 2019 (UTC) First time commenting, so do I need to manually put in my username and time or does it do that automatically? How much you wanna bet that’s Zola in disguise instead of future Lucrezia? Also just so it’s clear, Albia’s freeing the british soldiers from her control.User:Ghoulking0510:29 September 11, 2019 there, got it. :You need to end your post with four tildes (~) to add a sig. There's also a tool at the top to do it more automatically. --MadCat221 (talk) 06:33, September 11, 2019 (UTC) : : Welcome aboard! Why Zola? We know Lunevka (the Lucrezia clone in Anevka's clank body) is around somewhere. Bkharvey (talk) 07:01, September 11, 2019 (UTC) ::: I was thinking along the same lines, that this might not be Lucrezia Prime. If it is Lucrezia Prime why is she suddenly channelling Diva, a la Zola? This isn't the way Lucrezia in Agatha acted back in Mechanicsburg in her secret lab. Or even here in England. ::::Lucrezia does not need to channel Diva, she is a Diva. --Fred1740 (talk) 16:06, September 11, 2019 (UTC) ::: Yes, but this a form of Diva that Lucrezia had not displayed. It is what I would expect of Zola. Doug Relyea (talk) 19:17, September 11, 2019 (UTC) ::: I was wondering if this clank is tied to the Queen of the Dawn, not just for her actions, but also she looks like she is wearing a crown. Lapointdm (talk) 17:00, September 12, 2019 (UTC) ::: ::: And why would a clank need a mouth full of Pearly whites? ::::Cyborg? --Fred1740 (talk) 16:06, September 11, 2019 (UTC) ::: As to Lunevka, I wouldn't expect to see her. To Zola, Lunevka was merely a tool to get Zola out of the hospital. Zola would not have left Lunevka running around loose. At best (for Lunevka) Zola deactivated her. Doug Relyea (talk) 15:29, September 11, 2019 (UTC) ::::Lunevka was Klaus' personal nurse in the Great Hospital and on Castle WUlfenbach. Boris thought she was useful as she seemed able to control Klaus. Zola ran off and used Lucrezia's knowledge to become Queen of the Dawn. Dimo said Gil stopped Castle Wulfenbach's remnants from obeying Lucrezia - that had to be Lunevka. --Fred1740 (talk) 16:06, September 11, 2019 (UTC) :::::"Had to be"? It's not like Lucrezia is going around publicly announcing she's the Other and that she's taking over Europa. Zola could be both the Queen of the Dawn and the Lucrezia-copy that Dimo was referring to. That said, yes, it could also be clank-Lu, or both of them working together. --Geoduck42 (talk) 01:28, September 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::::Gil knows who Zola is, quite personally it would seem. Lucrezia (Dimo said Lucrezia) was stopped from controlling Castle Wulfenbach's revenants, meaning she was on board. Agatha was still "in transit" while believed trapped in Mechanicsburg. Also "The Queen of the Dawn" shows up two and a half years after the events at Mechanicsburg. You seem to forget the time skip which we know very little about the events during that time. --Fred1740 (talk) 02:14, September 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::::: 1. As we've seen in Paris, it is not necessary for a copy of Lucrezia to be present in person to have revenants activated by her minions. (Tho it is very odd that clank-Lu didn't accompany the Baron back to the Castle..) 2. Zola/The Queen did not first make waves the same time as Agatha's return; when Gil gets his briefing on her, it's about her latest peacekeeping effort/covert take-over of a Northern Europan kingdom; Gil comments that half the kingdoms up there are at her feet. Also, her minions in Paris have clearly been plotting for months, smuggling in Geisters and hive engines while preparing for her to appear in person at the local opera house. 3. That briefing also makes it pretty clear the Queen isn't going around broadcasting her face in public, probably because Zola didn't want to be recognized. When she finally turns up in person in Paris, she's wearing a mask. (And yes, Tarvek still immediately recognizes her.) It's not like Gil's had a chance to personally attend one of her "events". --Geoduck42 (talk) 12:25, September 12, 2019 (UTC) :::: There is a discontinuity in the story with the direct hit on the Great Hospital. Boris made that mention before the hit. Zola somehow escaped, I agree. Zola with Lucrezia departed Lucrezia's secret lab in Castle Heterodyne when she thought Lucrezia's lab destruct would end Lu in Agatha. I feel that Lunevka Not being seen on Castle Wulfenbach was telling. Doug Relyea (talk) 19:32, September 11, 2019 (UTC) :::::There are two and a half years (story years) of events that we readers are not privy to. Dimo is referring to that time period as he fills Agatha in on what happened. We have seen NOTHING of those years. --Fred1740 (talk) 02:14, September 12, 2019 (UTC) :::: Why would Zola need to "escape" from the hospital? It's not a prison; you can just pick yourself up and leave. (After signing a zillion forms about leaving against medical advice.) Bkharvey (talk) 01:35, September 12, 2019 (UTC) :::: :::: I think ''this is the right place in the rather confusing indentation hierarchy to say this: At the hospital they called Lunevka "Princess." They were happy to have her visit with Klaus, but she's not anyone's minion, and I don't see why anyone would have expected her to continue nursing him after his discharge from the hospital. Only the two of them know they're anything more than two strangers crossing in the night. Bkharvey (talk) 13:41, September 12, 2019 (UTC) Me and my big thumbs. Vol11, p045 Dr Sun informed that Zola has left the Castle, was shot down by the Gargoyle Sweepers and is being brought to the Great Hospital in bad shape. Vol11, p051, Dr Sun and Granddaughter order restraints and extra guards to a recovering Zola. Zola attempts escape and is unable due to all the damage she accumulated. Complains in such a voice that Lunevka thinks it's another Lucrezia. Their interaction continues to p 054. Last visual reference to Zola p053. Zola reappears in Paris as Queen of the North. Vol11, p086, last visual reference to Lunevka, dressed as a Great Hospital nurse in last frame. Vol12, p043, news of Baron found alive reaches Castle Wulfenbach. Vol12, p065, Klaus and Gil interaction on Castle Wulfenbach. Vol12. p148 last frame, pg149, 152 more Gil and Klaus on Castle Wulfenbach. Vol13, p023, 024, 030 to 035, action on Castle wulfenbach leading up to Klaus arriving in Mechanicsburg with take 5 bomb. Vol13, p056 Last frame. Why I snerk when the current Wulfenbach Empire leadership jokes/talks/worries about Gil giving the Empire to Agatha. Doug Relyea (talk) 19:01, September 12, 2019 (UTC) I think the hangover for Trelawney just got worse. Argadi (talk) 11:28, September 11, 2019 (UTC) Assuming coherent writing, there's still something strange about this version of Lucrezia, to the point where Albia didn't immediately recognize her. I also suspect that Albia's rebooting her marines into their mode of being loyal to her. Assuming this is something she can do, it suggests either their loyalty was hacked by this version of Lucrezia (e.g. the marines weren't wasped), or that possibly Albia knows how to cure Revenants. The next question is whether Trelawney can hang on long enough to purge Lucrezia from the dome. Drama! Yay! user:heteromeles:heteromeles : Yes, I think the yellow dots over the ninjas shows Albia's influence. Lucrezia doesn't understand the statement which shows she can't sense loyalty/influence changes of those around her. Argadi (talk) 18:08, September 11, 2019 (UTC) Perhaps "The" Other doesn't exist. It may be that there's not a single entity, or even a hierarchy of entities, doing the Others work. At the center of the maelstrom may not be The Real Lucrezia, but rather an army of copies of her, made at different times, each with their own histories, some of which they share, some of which are unique. Some can travel in time, some cannot. Some are essentia, some are overlays, some are clanks, some are cyborged or whatever. That may be a simpler way of explaining why different versions of Lucrezia know different things at different times. For example, the current Clank Lucrezia may have been asked something like "hey sister, could you go rescue Agatha and the copy of us that she carries at (science dome coordinates). The clank went for it, not knowing what she'd encounter (so she's not a downstream copy of LIA, for example), and not prepared to deal with Albia (so she's carrying the wrong weapons). Given my record of predictions, this will almost certainly turn out to be wrong, but it's another explanation for trying to disentangle Lucrezia's history. heteromeles : Presumably there's a ''first Other, unless this is one of those By His Bootstraps things, which I really hope not. Bkharvey (talk) 01:35, September 12, 2019 (UTC) : I'm fairly sure that Lucrezia was originally born of human parents, so that's the genetic original. As for her character and the course of her life? With humans, both nature and nurture are paramount, and if,as a girl, she finds out from other copies of herself she has some sort of glorious destiny to become a time traveler and take over the world...that's where things might get timey-wimey. The question is whether there's one Lucrezia who gets folded, spindled, and mutilated through some recondite twisty time travel life that is nonetheless a single life story, or whether she spawns a multitude of copies of herself, and they each have their own history. Since she's willing to kill off copies of herself, I'm guessing it's the latter, which means I'm most likely wrong. heteromeles "Is that supposed to mean something?" Do we believe that Lu/clank really doesn't get it, or is she/it trying to bait Albia? Bkharvey (talk) 01:35, September 12, 2019 (UTC) : I think it is just intended to convey that she is focusing on Albia and not looking at those around/behind her. Albia's comment is vague if you don't know who it refers to. Argadi (talk) 10:04, September 12, 2019 (UTC)